The St. John’s Dating Dilemma 200 Women Share Their Frustrations

The most surprising thing about this poll was how unanimous the answers were ...

This is NOT a guide on “how to get the girl,” or anything as silly as that. Not every woman wants the same thing, and chemistry is either there or it isn’t. This is an exploration of dating scene discontent among women looking for an old-fashioned connection, and the men who let them down.

You can’t make someone like you, but you can try and understand what a lot of women, maybe even the woman of your dreams, is looking for … which clearly is not 2 a.m drunk text, a 3 a.m D pic, or a vague “hey?” on a dating site.

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WHAT ARE YOU REALLY LOOKING FOR IN A MAN?

The only traits that got over 100 votes a piece were: a sense of humour, a kind heart, someone interesting who can keep a conversation stimulating, and someone with a passion for something. In short: good company. Put simply by Aurelia, “Funny, smart guys are always attractive. Considerate guys, too.” Obvofake echoes the importance of a man “having a brain and using it. He thinks about his world and is involved in it.”

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE, ULTIMATELY, OF GOING ON A 1ST DATE WITH A GUY?

The answer should be obvious: “To gauge our chemistry and compatibility: can he carry a conversation? If this is going to be more than a hookup, he has to make me laugh and laugh at me. He has to enlighten me. He has to demonstrate the two of us could be friends as much as lovers, because let’s face it: sex constitutes very little of the time a couple spends together.”

“First dates are about making an intro. It should be fun and a snap shot of who you are.” ACJ says “I want to enjoy myself while I’m getting to know you.”

Joey’s comment embodies those of many, “I want humour and just enough confidence to be that saucy, chivalrously flirty date. Also, being passionate, about anything, is huge. It really shows that the guy isn’t going to be dull, and that the date, and possible subsequent relationship, won’t be either.”

… AND YET 90% OF WOMEN FEEL LIKE MEN WANT SEX MORE THAN CHEMISTRY

Despite those common sentiments above, more than 90% of the chemistry-seeking women who took this poll said they find most men are only after sex on a first date, and they’re not being respectful about it. “They’re plain pushy.”

“When I go on a date, I want to see if I feel unique to him, interesting, compatible. But all I get is a series of crass advances or at best, comments on my beauty. I guess that’s all he thinks I am good for: a hot bod in the sack. That’s all women are, hey? Eff that. No guy calls me or my friends back if we don’t put out on date night 1.”

“Many guys will preface a conversation with comments about long legs and where they want to stick their face, assertions they can please a women well. Boring. There’s plenty of that shit on internet, and it mostly makes you seem juvenile.” As ANON 189 says, “If you want a hookup, come find me in a bar on a Friday. If you want me specifically, ask me on a date, and be interesting and kind and into me, not what I can do for you in the bedroom.”

They don’t call it “getting lucky” for no reason: sex is something you’re lucky to land for treating her with respect and admiration, not something she owes you. Yet a lot of answers included frustrations like “They’re all so rude and try and move too fast. My last date told me everyone else has first-date sex as if it’s a strike against me if I don’t. How was I supposed to feel like sex isn’t all he wanted? Not me, just sex. Most women need chemistry, guys, I’m sorry. So you should be trying to create some.”

Most women shared stories of overt sexual aggression on a first date, from hands up skirts under tables, to disturbing tales of near-abduction. “On the way home [from a miserable first date] he drove to a deserted road, stopped the car and asked if I was ready to make out. I was speechless. What creep drives to a deserted road to make out with a complete stranger. I’ve never been so terrified and told him to drop me at home or I’d call the cops.” Do not ever project your expectations on a woman like that.

“NETFLIX AND CHILL” IS THE END OF CHIVALRY

“If you’re actually interested in me, you want to do something more fun than watching Netflix, because you could do that on your own. And so could I. It’s infuriating to only hear from a guy when it’s dark out and he’s just looking to get off. I’m worth more than a blowjob. Make me feel that way if you want one.”

“Couch dates make a guy seem lazy, boring, unsocial, immature, or sex obsessed.”

Netflix and Chill is also not a good move if you don’t know someone first: who wants to be alone in a house with a stranger? “Couch dates seem like a rush to sex and I don’t feel safe when I’ve not met someone or hardly know them.”

THE BORE OF BOOTY CALLS

Booty calls are booty calls – men and women like sex equally. Having a booty call relationship with someone is great, healthy, mutually beneficial. Except … when you booty call a stranger you haven’t slept with yet as a first move. “A booty call is not the way to my heart.”

“Contacting me late at night: that stinks of booty call. If you wanna talk to me, try normal hours, so I know I’m thought of outside of your late-night boner.” ANON 82 adds, “A common first and fatal mistake [is men] forgetting I exist Sunday-Thursday, then suddenly remembering to text me when you’re on George street Friday night.”

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO DATES, ANYWAY?

More than 75% of women complained “men don’t ask women on proper dates anymore, at all, so there’s no way to properly meet, then get to know a guy.”

“I want a confident man who knows who he wants, why he wants her, and how to ask her to give him a shot. But all I get are ‘wanna hang’ texts after dark, or a vague ‘hi?’ on a dating site.”

“No one’s direct and clear and confident and it is infuriating and makes men seem like boys. Ask her on a date like a f*cking grown up. There is nothing sexier than a grown man who is sure about what he wants and isn’t afraid to ask.”

WHAT ARE SOME THINGS HE CAN DO RIGHT ON A FIRST DATE?

These 5 quotes summarize all sentiments in this regard.

“Don’t act like you’re someone else, that’s not the point of meeting YOU. Ask about me, my interests, and have a meaningful discussion that doesn’t feel like an interview. Show a genuine interest in getting to know me.” and “Make me feel more interesting than the damn phone you spend 24-7 with!”

“Honestly, I’m nervous too, let’s laugh about that together. Let’s find out our things in common and talk about those, NOT how attractive you think I am.”

“If you are only looking for a hookup, cut to the chase” and “if you’re actually looking to meet me, keep the setting quiet enough for a chat, and let’s do this one on one.”

“A casual first date is way less pressure. Then I can actually spend more time figuring out how I feel about you instead of how much this fancy meal is costing. Elaborate dates can be nice, but save that for like date number 3 or 4.”

RESPECT HER NOT WANTING TO BE ALONE WITH YOU AT FIRST

Don’t try and get her alone on a first date, she doesn’t know you, so don’t insist on picking her up if she hesitates, or don’t insist on walking her to her car if she declines the invite. “If you met on Tinder, many women will not want to go for a drive with you. It’s generally taught to us that this is not safe. Our dads would disapprove. Try something simple like meeting for coffee in a public place, first.”

“A lot of guys just want to get you alone, for making out I guess, but, c’mon dudes: I don’t freaking know you! And you’re presenting yourself as sex-crazed, so, no, I don’t wanna go back to my place, thanks!”

THINGS TO AVOID ALTOGETHER …

“Dick pics are gross.” And think about it: you wouldn’t whip it out at a party and show her, so why send it to her digitally at 3 a.m? It’s out of context in both scenarios, so keep it in your pants. She only wants to see it if she’s into you, and you’re in the heat of a real live-world moment. Otherwise it’s actually sexually aggressive of you. “Dick pics: never. We don’t care. You come off as simple, sex crazed, or insecure by sending them. Penises don’t turn us on in jpg format and there’s a whole www full of them.”

The other most common turnoff is you making her feel like you’re genuinely interested in her, like there’s something between you two, like you see something in her other people don’t … and then she finds out you’re saying the same kinds of things to 5 other friends of hers? As ACJ says, “May I remind you that we live in St. John’s? There is one degree of separation in this city.”

“When men want to sample every woman, it means they don’t know who or what they really want in a person. That’s immature and a turnoff.” Joey says, “It makes the guy seem like he has no real taste in women, which is boring, and boring is just painful.”

GIVE MEN SOME POINTERS ABOUT ONLINE DATING …

Basically all answers were a spin on this on Frustrated Feminist’s comment, “Keep your shirts on, don’t pose with a dozen other men so it’s impossible to tell who owns the profile, don’t cut your ex out of your photos – it’s still obvious that she’s there, stop posing with exotic animals – it doesn’t make you look well-travelled, don’t use gang signs (gangs are scary, they’re not sexy).” Other profile pic no-nos: “cars, motorcycles, ski-doos, ATVs, or boats (unless you are also in the picture actually using them).”

Segueing out of profile pic preferences, ANON 24 says, “PLEASE KEEP YOUR SHIRT ON. Mention your interests! Talking about what you like is so much more attractive than your nipples.”

“Actually fill out your profiles. Blank profile = no effort into telling people who they are = they don’t care about who you are either = just looking for sex.” As ANON 67 says, “If you can’t make the effort to fill out your profile, you will suck at dating. I might like your abs, but I won’t match with you for them! Why? I’m not that shallow! I’ll match you for your profile description, though.” ANON 139 adds, “Proving you read my profile goes a long way. (Hint: actually read the profiles).”

As for that first message to a potential date, “Stop messaging girls and starting with ‘hey beautiful’ and ‘you’re sexy.’ It’s too generic, if your message could have been copied and pasted to 10 different girls and it would apply to each of them, it’s too generic.”

What about in the bedroom … What’s one thing they’re all doing wrong?

TOP 5 MOST COMMON ISSUES ARE SUMMARIZED BY THESE STATEMENTS:

1.) “Seems like men in their 20s, or even 30s, were raised by the internet, so they seem to think a real life bedroom scene plays out like a porn scene. But we are not porn stars. Please slow down. Please consider my needs too! I’m not here to pleasure you, I’m here to be pleasured too, this is a mutually beneficial moment, remember that! Selfish lovers are like plain donuts, no one wants them.”

“Replicating porno is not realistic, nor does it get the job done. Communicate what

you like, and listen to what I like, and we will both get off. It’s that simple. Don’t be

porno-creepy. Don’t ever do things to me without asking. I’m not opposed to certain things, but only if you ask first. If you don’t, it’s offensive, illegal, and makes me feel disrespected. And sticky.”

2.) “Men’s obsession with their penis size, big or small. How big you are isn’t going to help me think you’re an amazing guy. I only like amazing guys. Penises are kinda gross and we don’t even need them: I speak on behalf of women everywhere: more oral or skilled hands, please.”

3.) “Stop with the ‘hit it and quit it’ thing. I don’t care if you’re done in 30 seconds and ashamed of yourself: half of guys are. What I care about is you thinking that means it’s all over before I am done. Don’t leave me hanging because I’m the tortoise and you’re the hare! Honestly, I am not here to shame and emasculate you for your ‘short cummings.’

I am here to get off too, not just get you off, whether you’re done yet or not!”

4.) More foreplay. “Has anyone ever heard of foreplay? I don’t want it to be over before I’m even into it.” “A woman needs foreplay, or she’s going to take even longer to get off.”

5.) “Be more respectful than you’re being. Don’t push my head down there, don’t tell me St. John’s women don’t wear condoms anymore. Gross.”

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32 Comments

  • From a female perspective yes this is accurate but it also seems sexist against men. Yes we’re tired of dic pics and want a kind caring dude but i would expect he would the same from us. Maybe its the different languages we speak or just constantly meeting mr and ms wrong. I believe hes out there 🙂

  • It’s a shame that the straight male and gay versions of these never did materialize. It was quite an interesting read, but there are a lot more perspectives on the dating scene than straight womens’.

  • Overview:

    Females have been conditioned to expect everything, and give little in return but games, headaches, and dishonesty (because they’re ‘afraid’ to hurt someone’s feelings – blah, blah, blah). They are most times guilty of creating the failure between them and the subject person. If you’d like something to work out ladies, stop filtering and start trying.

  • Boring Stereotypical Petulant Male responses all over here..(imagine)
    Overcast: “Hi, here’s an article bout some women’s opinions!”
    Men: “Hey what about MY opinion!! Women’s opinions are wrong!! This is sexist!!
    I don’t WANNA have to moderate my behaviour in civil society to hide that fact that I’m really just a gross, selfish, emotionally castrated, woman-hating man-child lashing out at a world that doesn’t treat me like a special snowflake..!! Wah! Wah! Women asking to be treated like humans is making my weiner droop. I’m going to give up my awkward attempts at social interaction entirely, and that’ll show YOU..booyah!. Women need to be approachable! (Ie: not creeped out by my awkward stalking)” ad infinitum..amen.

    Gee, boys..If you’d like to have your chance to express YOUR opinion, ask the publication for a counterpoint/follow up article. Or, you know, just exist..in.. a society. I haven’t noticed that your viewpoint is particularly UNDER-represented.

  • If you find ALL the men you are dating are disrespectful and only seem to be interested in you for sex, then it might help to ask yourself these questions:
    – How did you meet the guy in the first place? If the answer if Tinder or PoF and you haven’t established through conversation that he is NOT just looking for sex (and that you aren’t), then chances are pretty good he is primarily interested in sex. That’s what these sites have a reputation for, not much different than meeting someone on George Street at 2am.
    – What have both people put out there to attract the other person so far? If what you’ve both put forth before that first date (and the extent of what you know about each other) amounts to attractive pictures, charisma and flirting, you’re (both) giving a signal that that’s what you’re all about. Everyone plays a big role in how they are viewed or treated.

    I feel like early communication (of intentions) is a big part of the problem. It’s a generalization, but people can be afraid of speaking up and taking the early conversations in the direction they want, for fear of losing the other person’s interest or coming across as uptight or boring. Online dating media have a high degree of anonymity, and what you generally see are the male behaviors that are rewarded and encouraged, as surprising as that may be. Perplexed by the number of guys who think dick pics are the way to a woman’s heart? The answer is in the responses they get. It would stop immediately if every female responded to a dick pic by ignoring or blocking. But that isn’t what happens. It works to get what they are looking for enough times that continuing the behavior is encouraged. It’s a generalization, but guys see the success of the “bad boy/rebel/asshole” personality, are rejected for being “too nice/bland”, and certain behaviours are reinforced. It’s a sad reflection of the lack of respect people have for each other.

    But I don’t like to rant without a suggestion for improvement: It seems to me that the solution lies in seeking out your own kind, not participating in a mass activity that adopts a mob mentality and plays down to the lowest denominator. Use online dating less and try harder to find dates by meeting people doing activities you enjoy. Keep an open mind as to who around you might be a potential partner. If you buy into the perceived expectation of physicality or sex on a first date, then of course it makes a lot of sense to only date someone you are already really into. But that’s backwards. I say, be willing to go on a date with someone BEFORE you know if you’re into them, in order to find out. And be willing to speak up if your date doesn’t appear to understand that accepting a date is not a green light to act like a disrespectful horny baboon.

    Anyway, what do I know… I’m single 😛

  • lol k thnks. For a second there I had somehow developed the delusion that I could, I dunno, be an autonomous person who likes what I like and present myself however I choose to and communicate what I feel and if someone’s not into that then so be it. I appreciate the clarification. So how is it I should I dress, communicate, and be? I forgot already

  • In think it all depends on what both the man and woman are looking for. as a single male (and dad) in rwally not interested in casual sex, booty calls or one night stands. I need to have chemisty and friendship before intimacy. Not only do I need physical attraction (there are a lot of really beautiful women on this city) I need to like the woman, have some kind of mutual respect and certainly an emotional connection. This can’t happen in a single date. I have been single for more than a year and have not had sex since being single. I have had lots of dates but the chemistry wasn’t there and hence no emotional connection.

    I also find a sense of “relationship desperation” from some women. Some are almost obsessed with being in a relationship as it has some sort of innate description of them as an individual.

    I like strong confident women that are comfortable with themselves and their sexuality. I like “equalization” in relationships and find that more of a turn on than anything else

  • I could, and have, write a lot of this same material in my own blog. It’s completely factual. And while there are always exceptions to the rules, this article is really spot on. I would go out on a limb and say that if a survey was done from a male perspective, we might hear some interesting things as well. I’ve been online dating for several months now and have heard plenty of stories about women and their behaviour – and it’s safe to say many are giving us a bad name.

  • A lot of this article seems to be saying women want more than sex on a first date and they want a man to be confident and tell them what he wants from them. I’ll do that for all men on their behalf. We want just as much from a woman as you want from us. We want you to be good conversation, funny, interesting, and motivated, but above all we want to know you are interested in sleeping with us. If I ask someone out, I want to have sex with them. Friendship comes after time, and I’m not opposed to just being friends, but I know I don’t want a Girlfriend I don’t enjoy sex with or who doesn’t want sex from me. I also know I don’t want to waste my time on five to six dates with someone that I could know I will be disinterested in after one. I like sex, and if you’re bad at it, then I don’t want to date you. Wanna be friends? cool, I can do that, but lets find out straight off, so we aren’t passing up on dates with people we might actually be interested in.

    • Seems to me if the relationship is good, the sex will be something you want and it will be fine. Just because you like to have sex with someone sure doesn’t mean you’d actually want them to be a part of your life, though! I think your priorities are totally the opposite of what most women would be looking for in a potential partner or someone they’d want to date.

  • This article has some valid points but many women here are also not very approachable. I’ve met some really nice women here but I’ve also met ones that are cold and shut you down before you even have a chance to talk to them….they won’t even allow you to allow them to get to know you. I’m a nice looking guy, I’m well educated, I have a very good job, my own house who any woman here would like, and yet to me, it seems that it means nothing to the women of St. John’s these days. I’ve approached women and been made to feel as if I’m a creep for approaching them, I’ve been called a loser by women when they don’t even know me. It is so funny how ignorant and inconsiderate women can be in this city these days. And how often is it that you see a nice looking girl to herself at a bar downtown and she is zoned into her phone with all her desirable guys walking by, and she does not even notice one of them! As someone mentioned above, I’d like to read the guy version of this.

    • Totally agreed. This is my experience as well. I’ve had a really hard job meeting and having conversations with women in spite of doing many of the good things mentioned in the article, and I wouldn’t dream of doing a majority of the “don’ts” above. Like you, I’m highly educated, don’t think I’m unattractive and am in a pretty good place in life. In spite of that, I’ve had to put in the lion’s share of effort to have a conversation, and, in a couple of cases, I’ve been accused (publicly, at that) of being a creep. I’m VERY eager to be able to answer the male version of this survey, since I have a lot to say, but won’t hijack this conversation. LOL

  • Agree and disagree with this article. As a woman who has used online dating for the past two years I have had some good experiences and met a couple of really nice guys. Although it doesn’t come out in this article, there really are interesting, courteous (and therefore attractive) men in this city! You guys rock.

    Although after talking to my friends (of both genders ) I discovered we have some common pet peeves. The short of the long is whether you are a man or a women, simple respect and courtesy goes a long way.

    In particular abuse of phones/technology is a problem. Essentially, using technology as an excuse to be rude. Whether its having your phone out on a date, not apologizing if you take an inordinate amount of time to return a text, unwanted dick pics, ghosting etc. It’s common courtesy to treat the other person like, well, a person. Meeting online does not mean they do not exist as a real human and being rude is not attractive.

    Also, be honest about what you are looking for up front. Tell me if you are looking for FWB or long-term. But don’t lie to try and tell me what you think I want to hear. Believe me, we can see through that. Different goals sometimes can be worked through, but lying to my face early on? Deal breaker.

  • Wow, six comments and you we’re already at the butthurt.

    The things listed in this article are not new, unheard of ideas guys. The theme here is “don’t be a dick”. A lot of the things pointed out here are pretty obvious (don’t send unsolicited dick pics, don’t force girls into sex, actually treat women like people). If you’re a man who’s offended by some of the points listed here, maybe you’re guilty of some of this behaviour? This is common sense guys.

  • Guys, this is a gold mine! If you actually want a girlfriend, look how EASY it is to stand out.

    PS. Many men like to do the pursuing. These women are simply telling you how to be more effective at it.

  • Wow! It says a lot about both men and women in St. John’s these days. Hard to say that there is very much positive about society in general based on the survey comments. Everybody seems to have less in the people skills department from 20 years ago when I was dating. Scary.

    • The dating scene is frustrating for men too! I’m tired of constantly being told what kind of man I need to be for a woman to want me. Ladies, don’t you think that giving men a list of prerequisites might scare him off? I’m thirty-two and have dated a bit in the past, but the whole militant feminist culture out there nowadays is just turning me off from approaching women. I don’t WANT a woman who will bite my head off over a perceived sexist remark or misunderstanding. Men aren’t asking you out on a date? Try being approachable!

  • Sexist really. Self centered. Whole idea of men pursuing and having to impress the girl is outdated. Ask the nice guy out who doesn’t look like the best, you might be surprised.

  • OK, so what IS a good date idea and why does the man have to think of it?
    And don’t expect every man to be a highly confident person that is going to be able to relax enough to show you his real self on a first date.

    • I don’t think that’s the problem that’s being presented here. The much bigger problem are the guys who are only looking for hookups, or even worse, the guys who are offended when we say no to said hook up. As long as you don’t send dick pics, and aren’t an asshole, I’m pretty sure most ladies will feel blessed to have found you.

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